Guide system opinion

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Default Guide system opinion

Post by Mavroh Lowe on Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:36 am

So the thread experience system doesn't really reveal itself to me.... It looks like this:
Spoiler:
  • Thread with 10 to 20 posts total: 50 XP
  • Thread with 30 to 40 posts total: 100 XP
  • Thread with 50 to 60 posts total: 150 XP
  • Thread with 70 to 90 posts total: 200 XP
  • Thread with 100+ posts total: 250 XP
The things that kind of disturb me are
1. A thread with 10 posts gives 50 XP meaning 5 threads with each 10 posts give 250XP
2. A thread with 100 posts gives 250 XP meaning you can reach the highest amount of gainable XP with half the amount of effort you should actually put in the whole thing

>>>>> I would recommend lowering the bar for threads with few posts and raise the bar for threads with a lot of posts to make the threads with a bunch of posts more appealable and wantable (are those even words? lawl) for the members.

Another thing is that I would recommend the whole thing looking like. It just disturbed me and caused confusion in my head.
Spoiler:
  • Thread with 10 to 29 posts total: 50 XP
  • Thread with 30 to 49 posts total: 100 XP
  • Thread with 50 to 69 posts total: 150 XP
  • Thread with 70 to 99 posts total: 200 XP
  • Thread with 100+ posts total: 250 XP

Now.... another thing is that Civilians don't gain strength after Intermediate. Going Experienced or Expert doesn't bring them anything. And as those ranks seemed to indicate strength I thought it was quite disturbing to see how they wouldn't be able to gain things even though they're on the same level as other rpers in terms of effort.

Furthermore I don't really think the move system is really applicable to melee fighters EVEN THOUGH, I can live with it.

What's a proposition on my side is a stat system that will look somewhat like this:

Spoiler:
"Race" benefits:
Ishvalans: Access to dexterity with extra 4 points on physical stats to spend
Military: Same as Ishvalans
Chimera: Access to extra 4 points on physical stats. Their tenacity skill will also have a base stat of 2 rather than 0 with all the other "races". The system by which Chimera's will spend their physical stat points will be that they will spend the base 12 points and then write a plus sign (+) and take a number of the extra 6 stat points that they want to enhance. Meaning it will sort of look like this:
Spoiler:
Strength: 5 + 2
Agility: 3
Stamina: 4 + 2
That makes base 12 points in total plus the 4 extra. The 4 extra points will only be accesible in their beast modes
Homunculi: They receive an extra +3 points on physical and +3 on mental capabilities as they are superhuman. This does incline that they are stronger by base than any other "race". They have access to alchemical skill stat.
Alchemists: Get +4 on mental stats and access to alchemical skill stat

Physical: 12 spendable points (Indicates melee fighting strength, hand-to-hand combat)
Strength: (indicated physical, muscle strength, be it athletic or heavy should be explained in your char apps)
Agility: (Indicates speed and flexibility)
Stamina: (Indicates durability, endurance and constitution)

Dexterity (name is discussable, lable will stay): (This will be an extra skill. Anyone who will use melee weapons of some sort will have access to this skill. Ishvalans and Military will have access to this skill.)

Mental: 12 spendable base points
Observance: (How well your character can observe areas. How well he can read opponents and notice certain things)
Intelligence: (Involves knowledge as well as practical intelligence. Knowledge being knowledge about the whole history of Amestris and surroundings and practical knowledge being how fast a character can react in dangerous situations and how he well he can apply fighting skills)
Tenacity: (mental composure and emotional/mental stability. Can also make people keep on fighting with wounds and ignore pain. For Chimera's, it also indicates the level of self-control.)


Alchemical Skill: (Accesible for Alchemists and Homunculi. This determines level of Alchemical skill as well as praciticing the particular alchemy. For alchemists who use a medium like a jojo [Kyo Mikkoku], this incorporates the skill with that particular medium already. For homunculi it determines their skill with their particular "superhuman ability")

What I'd like to come back to is the ranking system and the move system. I don't really understand the moves in combination with the ranks. While fighting are we prohibited to only the moves? How far can we go with NPC's then? And if we have to stick to moves I propose the possibility of training threads that allow one to train moves of a certain rank that will allow him to learn new moves while respecting a certain word count needed for the rank the move is in.


Last edited by Mavroh Lowe on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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Default Re: Guide system opinion

Post by Vincent Fox on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:42 am

I agree with the 1st issue about the posting.

Dexterity and agility is roughly the same in most situation. My understanding is that Agility talks about moves such as parry, dodge, dashes and max speed while Dexterity talks about hand and body movement speed during tight situations like the ability to change actions mid attack or defence. Not sure if my thought of it is right as it clashes with Intelligence a little.

The idea behind it is that even though one can have higher intelligence, which equates to higher brain processing speed, can the body follow these instructions fast enough, etc.

All in all, it is a good idea and I would recommend it to be implemented once its fine proofed.
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Default Re: Guide system opinion

Post by Mavroh Lowe on Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:40 am

The names can change. But the general idea is what I presented there. I labeled Agility wrong though, I just saw that. Agility is not supposed to be reflexiveness, which would indeed fall under mental skills like observance or int, but speed, flexibility and acrobaticness (if that's a word) if you get the idea.... Dexterity after my understanding has to do with handling tools, meaning weapons. But aside from the labels and names which I can change slightly, the general idea is that.
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Default Re: Guide system opinion

Post by Webmaster Marcus on Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:15 am

Hm, what about the max lvl per skill? The guide should also describe what every level means for each skill, otherwise people would just refer to them and point out that they are stronger because they have 8 in whatever and the other person has 6.

Other than that, members should vote about this too. If they enjoy the system you created in this topic I'll implement as soon as possible when it's fine-tuned.
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Default Re: Guide system opinion

Post by Kisuke T. Bloodedge on Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:26 am

Well, I just have one (more) thing to say about this system that bothers me. If we don't have boosts on this site, then why have low numbers where everyone is basically the same anyway. A one or two point difference doesn't mean very much unless that point difference would be something like ten or fifteen. What I'm suggesting is that instead of having such low numbers, why not but those numbers in the 20 and above range? Now the amount distribution should be fairly equal in terms of races. Other than that little issue, I think this is great :D

+1 vote in favor (after above consideration ^)
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Default Re: Guide system opinion

Post by Mavroh Lowe on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:25 am

Hmmmm, we could surely use bigger numbers.

Doesn't really matter.

And I can put up things to compare. For certain stats I can put up certain limits.
Like..... 8 in strength can lift up X amount of weight or so.

But imo, this thing should be free for use. Meaning that I, on my side, trust people not to abuse it for fighting purposes and to beat other members. The stat system is also not a system of who is stronger etc, but to generally see a character tendency. For my character (e.g.) it will be ok muscular strength, good speed and acrobatic skill and low constitution and endurance etc. but he'll be handling his sword quite good.

Mentally, he'll have higher int average tenacity and average observance. He'll be quite the thinker who follows his goals based on what he sees is right. This is just a tendency though. Nothing set in stone. This is what I mean by "free".

Another example is Ed.... he isn't really strong but quite agile and speedy. He also has good constitution and stamina. His tenacity is unrivaled and his alchemical skill would be average. His int is quite high and his observance not more than average.

Alex Armstrong would of course have insane strength and good stamina with low speed. His alchemical skill would be quite high while tenacity and observance would be good and better than average, while his int would be somewhat lower and more of average.
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Default Re: Guide system opinion

Post by Mavroh Lowe on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:35 am

Edit: Max level of a skill can of course be added. But that would come when we set numbers in stone. For example.... I'd set max level for a stat at 12 points for this system. Just an example.
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Post by Webmaster Marcus on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:04 am

We could also use terms instead of numbers. It's easier to say that you possess great strength and average speed than saying that you have a certain number in a skill.

Poor, Weak, Below-Average, Average, Above-Average, Good, Great, Excellent
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Default Re: Guide system opinion

Post by Mavroh Lowe on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:07 am

Hmm..... seems like a good idea. But I would say that it needs to be determined by points. Meaning, from so much to so much is average and so on.
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Post by Webmaster Marcus on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:09 am

1: Poor
2: Weak
3: Below-Average
4: Average
5: Above-Average
6: Good
7: Great
8: Excellent

We could set 8 as the max level for a skill, perhaps change the amount of points member get to distribute so it would grant them below-average/average in each skill. Members would be able to spend more points the skills they prefer and by doing that they'd have to spend less in the skills they don't find interesting.
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Default Re: Guide system opinion

Post by Mavroh Lowe on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:17 am

Hmm.... I think that it limits the different groups too much. If we use that as a unified system for all, how will chimera's get that? When they evolve, their skill changes..... we'd have to incorporate that. And then again, I want to make the difference in weapon proficiency between weapon-using characters and alchemists clear.
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Post by Webmaster Marcus on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:21 am

We could still go with your idea of giving a Chimera +4 to distribute on their and put it between parenthesis in their sheet.

Strength: Average (Good)
Speed: Good (Great)

How would you do it? I love to brainstorm and come up with a good system together with you all.
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Default Re: Guide system opinion

Post by Mavroh Lowe on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:26 am

Well..... I just noticed that only a system involving numbers would really work as a unified system. Since the groups have so different skills, there is no other way than to express everything in digits..... at least as I see it.

But on another note, before I continue, how do you see the whole "free" stat system thing. I want to make it rp based, not everything set in stone. I set it up to determine tendencies, not to see who is stronger than whom etc.
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Post by Webmaster Marcus on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:36 am

If that's the case we should go with digits, cause using terms would actually require us to set the capabilities in stone per rank for each skill.
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Default Re: Guide system opinion

Post by Mavroh Lowe on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:42 am

Ok..... so another thing we could do is create a stat system for every single group. Meaning normal people, alchemists, homunculi, chimeras. But that's quite complicated for starters and would cause confusion.

I'm not trying to pull you into my thoughts or anything, but imo digits work best. As said, this is not to determine who will be stronger but personal character tendencies and to an extent see how well your character can develop.
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Post by Webmaster Marcus on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:21 pm

Other members should post here as well to give some input on this matter.
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Default Re: Guide system opinion

Post by Vincent Fox on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:49 pm

Hmm... The work of creating a stat system for each race would be too much of a hassle to monitor as well as compare especially during battle threads IC, OOC and even events. I would say the cost of making by far outreaches the benefits obtained from it. So I dont agree to this.

As we are talking about a stat system a max is possible but we also need to come up with a base stat and how much stat would one gain per rank-up due to the experience system and etc. Eg. Experienced to Expert & etc.

There are two ways to set the amount of rank-up stats in my opinion.
One is to set a total max stat obtainable. Then we are able to decide on the stat increase per rank-up as well as the base stat (which i suggest to be zero for all)

Another way is to set the rank-up stat, this way we can see the total stat amounted. Hence, the total max stat obtainable while assuming base stat equates to zero.

Whichever way, we should shoot each other numbers then decide on the most reasonable one.
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Post by Webmaster Marcus on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:40 pm

If the max stat was say 10, we could allow members to start every skill with 4, they'd be allowed to play around with the numbers to design their starter position. So they could increase one skill to 6 and decrease two skills to 3 (keeping the numbers balanced).
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Post by Kisuke T. Bloodedge on Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:02 am

i think we should keep the race boosts if we have such low numbers. You see, one of the stats has to do with how much control a chimera has over their transformation. And if you do have low numbers, it would be easier to monitor because you could just count out the numbers and see how many they have total. If they either have less or more than they should, then a staff member would notify of this.

So seeing as everyone starts with 4 stat point for each category:
Physical: +4
Mental: +4

As stated by Uly, they get to choose where to put said stat points at first, but only once. The max amount is 10 (as stated before) so I suggest we give out +2 or +3 every rank up. It would take some time before any skill is maxed out, even if someone just puts all the points in once place (though that wouldn't be very realistic/a good idea). Now the race boosts that Mav suggested could be a little lower for Chimeras, like just +5 to physical, not +6. Homunculi should then either get +3 and +2, but they decide where the +3 and +2 go category wise, not just skill wise. It would made for both fairness and diversity. Everyone else could theoretically keep the +4 boost (alchemists +4 mental, Military/Ishvalan +4 Physical) and everything would be fair.

Alright, so that's my contribution.
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Default Re: Guide system opinion

Post by Mavroh Lowe on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:34 am

Spoiler:
"Race" benefits:
Ishvalans: Access to dexterity with extra 4 points on physical stats to spend
Military: Same as Ishvalans
Chimera: Access to extra 4 points on physical stats. Their tenacity skill will also have a base stat of 2 rather than 0 with all the other "races". The system by which Chimera's will spend their physical stat points will be that they will spend the base 12 points and then write a plus sign (+) and take a number of the extra 6 stat points that they want to enhance. Meaning it will sort of look like this:
Spoiler:
Strength: 5 + 2
Agility: 3
Stamina: 4 + 2
That makes base 12 points in total plus the 4 extra. The 4 extra points will only be accesible in their beast modes
Homunculi: They receive an extra +4 stat points to spend in general.
Alchemists: Get +4 on mental stats and access to alchemical skill stat

Physical: 12 spendable points (Indicates melee fighting strength, hand-to-hand combat)
Strength: (indicated physical, muscle strength, be it athletic or heavy should be explained in your char apps)
Agility: (Indicates speed and flexibility)
Stamina: (Indicates durability, endurance and constitution)

Dexterity (name is discussable, lable will stay): (This will be an extra skill. Anyone who will use melee weapons of some sort will have access to this skill. Ishvalans and Military will have access to this skill.)

Mental: 12 spendable base points
Observance: (How well your character can observe areas. How well he can read opponents and notice certain things)
Intelligence: (Involves knowledge as well as practical intelligence. Knowledge being knowledge about the whole history of Amestris and surroundings and practical knowledge being how fast a character can react in dangerous situations and how he well he can apply fighting skills)
Tenacity: (mental composure and emotional/mental stability. Can also make people keep on fighting with wounds and ignore pain. For Chimera's, it also indicates the level of self-control.)


Alchemical Skill: (Accesible for Alchemists This determines level of Alchemical skill as well as praciticing the particular alchemy. For alchemists who use a medium like a jojo [Kyo Mikkoku], this incorporates the skill with that particular medium already.)

This is a slightly edited version.

Now Bonreu (our new member, yaaay) adressed me to the problem with alchemists using weapons. This is a problem of fairness as alchemists will have the ability to have as much prowess in weaponry as they do with their alchemy. Now this problem is easy to deal with. Bon also adressed it but I'll just put it in here. It will be a rule in the stat system.

ONLY state alchemists can undergo weapon training, making them (yes, slightly better than all the other characters but they are evidently the military's elite. It's not a matter of fairness here, but logic.) the strongest characters in general. Thoughts on this?




Last edited by Mavroh Lowe on Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Kisuke T. Bloodedge on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:39 am

sees fair and balanced enough for me. I'd rather not touch this weapon subject and let everyone else do their thing with it until i see something is going in the wrong direction. Honestly though, it's pretty logical that way (what Mav said right above this post). I don't see a clear and present danger from this kind of system.
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Post by Vincent Fox on Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:10 am

Its good in my eyes. As for the weapons for state alchemist, its fine by me as they will be forced to either be focused in either alchemy or weaponry or balanced in both. Either way, in theory, they cannot beat a pure specialist. We can apply it for now and edit it in the future if any issues arise.
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Default Re: Guide system opinion

Post by Mavroh Lowe on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:01 am

Final stat system from my side, in rule form:
Rules & Guidelines for the Stat System:

  • Is divided into two groups of skills
  • “Physical Skills” and “Mental Skills”
  • Both groups have 3 categories with one extra category and will have 12 stat points each, which you can distribute freely on the 3 or 4 categories
  • The max points a stat can have is 12
  • With each rank up, you may add 4 stat points to the 12 base stat points of each group.
  • Different groups will have benefits

  • The 4 categories in Physical Skills are:
    • Strength: (Indicates physical, muscle strength, be it athletic or heavy, should be explained in your char apps)
    • Agility: (Indicates running speed and overall acrobatic skill)
      Stamina: (Indicates durability, endurance and constitution)
    • Physical extra category extra category, Dexterity: (Indicates level of how well you can weild weapons of any sort, Ishvalans and Military will have access to this skill.)

  • The 4 categories in Mental Skills are:
    • Observance: (Indicates how well he can read movements and process visual and generally momentary information that passes through the five senses.)
    • Instinct (need propositions on labeling atm): (Indicates the ability of instinctive behavior. Meaning moving without thinking and how well you can “feel” the right things to do in specific situations)
    • Tenacity: ( Indicates mental composure, emotional/mental stability and the ability to ignore pain. For Chimera's, it also indicates the level of self-control)
    • Mental extra category, Alchemical Skill: (Indicates level of Alchemical skill as well as level of the particular alchemy. For alchemists who use a medium like a jojo [Kyo Mikkoku], this incorporates the skill with that particular medium already.)


“Racial” (Group) Benefits:

Ishvalans: Access to dexterity with extra 4 points on physical stats to spend

Military: Same as Ishvalans

Chimera: Access to extra 4 overall stat points on physical stats. Their tenacity skill will also have a base stat of 2 rather than 0 with all the other "races". Chimera's don't get access to the 4 extra points UNLESS in beast mode. Follow these rules for filling out the template:
First, distribute the base stat points and don't pay attention to any of the extra points (Base tenacity does not fall under this)
Find skills on which you want to spend the extra points.
You will mark the skills you want to distribute your extra stat points on with a “+” after the number you spent on the skill already
You will add the number of extra stat points you want to distribute among your desired skills and write them after the plus
It should look somewhat like this:
Spoiler:
Strength: 5 + 2
Agility: 3
Stamina: 4 + 2
The tendecy you marked with a + will only be accessible in beast form.

Homunculi: They receive an extra +4 stat points to spend in general.

Alchemists: Get +4 on mental stats and access to alchemical skill stat

Copy and apply the following template:

Code:
[b]Character Name:[/b] (self-explanatory)


[b]Physical:[/b] 12 base points

Strength: (Indicates physical, muscle strength, be it athletic or heavy, should be explained in your char apps)
Agility: (Indicates speed and flexibility)
Stamina: (Indicates durability, endurance and constitution)

Dexterity: (Indicates level of how well you can weild weapons of any sort, Ishvalans and Military will have access to this skill.)

[b]Mental:[/b] 12  base points

Observance: (Indicates how well he can read movements and process visual and generally
momentary information that passes through the five senses.)
Instinct (need propositions on labeling atm): (Indicates the ability of instinctive behavior. Meaning moving without thinking and how well you can “feel” the right things to do in specific situations)
Tenacity: (Indicates mental composure, emotional/mental stability and the ability to ignore pain. For Chimera's, it also indicates the level of self-control)


Alchemical Skill: (Indicates level of Alchemical skill as well as level of the particular alchemy. For alchemists who use a medium like a jojo [Kyo Mikkoku], this incorporates the skill with that particular medium already, Alchmists will have access to this skill)
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Post by Webmaster Marcus on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:48 am

Why a max level of 12 instead of 10?
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Post by Mavroh Lowe on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:56 am

12 would mean half of the maximum achievable stat points in one Skill complex. Meaning half of the attributes go towards strength, speed, stamina, dexterity, observance blah blah blah. I think that should be possible and would make for a greater variety of things.

It's your call, haha. It doesn't make that big of a difference anyways, but I think it should be possible ^^ But again, whatever you say, goes
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